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274241 Kirk Eppler 2021‑07‑29 Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
Hey gang

I made another trip through the hoarder's tool sale that's been going on
for the last few weeks. Since I was there last, they've cleaned and
organized a bit, so it was easier to get through the stuff.  One tool I've
passed over on previous visits was a backsaw, rusted to heck, two broken
saw bolts, the one remaining is a split nut on the medallion.  Warranted
Superior with the eagle.

This time, I had a small enough stash*, that I decided I could safely carry
the saw out, so I decided that, worst case, I could salvage the fairly nice
handle, maybe re-plate it and get it working. The handle looked familiar,
but I couldn't place it right off.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-3nMj2cj/A

Got home, and got lost researching in the P Baker #4 Disston Type Study,
Jackson saws, double coved backsaws etc.  Meanwhile, the FleaBAGs had
gotten into a discussion about a Foley or two available locally, so I
commented on the sharpening job on this saw (last <1" under the handle not
sharpened), so asked if they had any clues as to who might have used this
handle, with the long nose.  A couple of quick replies from Bill K and
Brian W of Richardson Bros, and I was off to the races.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/incredible-early-richardson-back-saw-
with-3-1-4-inch-deep-blade-excelsior-67446

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/spectacular-richardson-no-5-back-saw-
carcass-saw-excelsior-95222

I then went fishing in my OT literature (EAIA book on Saw Articles), and
found a type study of Richardson by Philip Baker.  Mine looks a lot like
Picture 8 on page 13

https://mwtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Issue-146-March-2012.pdf

By the time of the 1895 "merger" into the National Saw Company, the nose
had developed quite a curve, and the hook was much less pronounced

So, the question to the assembled, does anyone know if Richardson (&
Brothers) ever made a WS saw?  Is there a chance the WS medallion is a
replacement from a long time ago, when they first broke all three trying to
remove them?

Pics here and following

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Tools/WS-Backsaw-Richardson/

I am thinking a rework is in order, depending on how well things go on
removing the split nut from the medallion.  I have a few saw nuts from
Blackburn Tools, not sure they are the right size, but will verify later.
Will try to separate the handle, back and plate, derust the metal, retooth
to get past the gross rust, then see what happens.  If the plate is
trashed, a new one from Blackburn may be on order.

There does not seem to be any markings on the spine, but the rust is pretty
thick right now.
-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, getting more derusting and organizing done in
the evenings for a change.  *Apologies to Tom for buying the shelf drilling
jig, but I move my shelves everytime my interests change.
274242 Bob Page 2021‑07‑29 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
Hi Kirk,

That is most definitely an early Richardson backsaw. The distinctive square nose
is a sure giveaway. I'm not sure if Richardson ever used a WS medallion. They
seemed to be quite proud of their ornate medallions and have used them on every
saw that I've seen, including the two in the photos from Jim Bode's site.

Incidentally, both of these amazingly beautiful (and completely original) saws
are currently in my shop. I just finished touching up the teeth for their new
owner. He is a Richardson collector, so perhaps he will have an answer for the
WS medallion question.

Bob Page
In da U.P. of Michigan




On Thursday, July 29, 2021, 03:14:02 PM EDT, Kirk Eppler via groups.io
 wrote:





Hey gang

I made another trip through the hoarder's tool sale that's been going on
for the last few weeks. Since I was there last, they've cleaned and
organized a bit, so it was easier to get through the stuff.  One tool I've
passed over on previous visits was a backsaw, rusted to heck, two broken
saw bolts, the one remaining is a split nut on the medallion.  Warranted
Superior with the eagle.

This time, I had a small enough stash*, that I decided I could safely carry
the saw out, so I decided that, worst case, I could salvage the fairly nice
handle, maybe re-plate it and get it working. The handle looked familiar,
but I couldn't place it right off.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-3nMj2cj/A

Got home, and got lost researching in the P Baker #4 Disston Type Study,
Jackson saws, double coved backsaws etc.  Meanwhile, the FleaBAGs had
gotten into a discussion about a Foley or two available locally, so I
commented on the sharpening job on this saw (last <1" under the handle not
sharpened), so asked if they had any clues as to who might have used this
handle, with the long nose.  A couple of quick replies from Bill K and
Brian W of Richardson Bros, and I was off to the races.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/incredible-early-richardson-back-saw-
with-3-1-4-inch-deep-blade-excelsior-67446

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/spectacular-richardson-no-5-back-saw-
carcass-saw-excelsior-95222

I then went fishing in my OT literature (EAIA book on Saw Articles), and
found a type study of Richardson by Philip Baker.  Mine looks a lot like
Picture 8 on page 13

https://mwtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Issue-146-March-2012.pdf

By the time of the 1895 "merger" into the National Saw Company, the nose
had developed quite a curve, and the hook was much less pronounced

So, the question to the assembled, does anyone know if Richardson (&
Brothers) ever made a WS saw?  Is there a chance the WS medallion is a
replacement from a long time ago, when they first broke all three trying to
remove them?

Pics here and following

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Tools/WS-Backsaw-Richardson/

I am thinking a rework is in order, depending on how well things go on
removing the split nut from the medallion.  I have a few saw nuts from
Blackburn Tools, not sure they are the right size, but will verify later.
Will try to separate the handle, back and plate, derust the metal, retooth
to get past the gross rust, then see what happens.  If the plate is
trashed, a new one from Blackburn may be on order.

There does not seem to be any markings on the spine, but the rust is pretty
thick right now.
-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, getting more derusting and organizing done in
the evenings for a change.  *Apologies to Tom for buying the shelf drilling
jig, but I move my shelves everytime my interests change.
274243 Joshua Clark <jclark@h...> 2021‑07‑29 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
Heya Kirk-

Like Bob said, that handle style is one of the earliest Richardson made. I
suspect the medallion may be original. All of the Richardson-branded
examples I've seen with this handle style were made of apple. From your
photos if looks like yours may be beech. If Richardson made a slightly
lower-quality version of this saw, say for a hardware store, it's quite
likely it could have had a beech handle and a Warranted Superior medallion.

Here are some photos of a nice Richardson no. 5 with that same handle. Note
that the plate is both etched and die-stamped. Perhaps your saw has a stamp
you can resurrect?
https://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/s1465.html

Josh

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 3:26 PM Bob Page via groups.io  wrote:
274244 Bill Ghio 2021‑07‑29 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
> On Jul 29, 2021, at 3:13 PM, Kirk Eppler via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-3nMj2cj/A
> 
> 

> I am thinking a rework is in order, depending on how well things go on
> removing the split nut from the medallion.  I have a few saw nuts from
> Blackburn Tools, not sure they are the right size, but will verify later.
> Will try to separate the handle, back and plate, derust the metal, retooth
> to get past the gross rust, then see what happens.  If the plate is
> trashed, a new one from Blackburn may be on order.


Wow Kirk, way more rehab ambition than I have ever had… But a great handle is
hard to find.

My favorite backsaw started w/ a comfortable handle on an old English saw with a
fractured plate. That was put with a heavy brass back from a R. Groves & Son saw
w/ a bad plate and broken handle. Sent these to Mark at Bad Axe Tool Works who
mated the two and added a new plate. Wonderful.

So you have the makings there. I look forward to seeing what you produce. 

Bill

PS, if you don’t find the right saw nuts in your stash give me a shout and I can
see what I’ve got.
274245 Bob Page 2021‑07‑29 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
Kirk,

There is now:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWixKKF

Bob Page
In da U.P. of Michigan


On Thursday, July 29, 2021, 03:36:04 PM EDT, Kirk Eppler 
wrote:

Bob

Was there to be a link to:" both of these amazingly beautiful (and completely
original) saws"

KE
274246 Joshua Clark <jclark@h...> 2021‑07‑29 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
And, oddly enough, the photos of the saw I posted earlier are of the same
saw Bob just posted. Not the same model.. the exact same saw.  :)

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 6:12 PM Bob Page via groups.io  wrote:
274263 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2021‑08‑01 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
Kirk wrote:

> Will try to separate the handle, back and plate, derust the metal, retooth
> to get past the gross rust, then see what happens.  If the plate is
> trashed, a new one from Blackburn may be on order.
> 
> There does not seem to be any markings on the spine, but the rust is pretty
> thick right now.

I do hope you will post in-progress pictures! It will be especially interesting
to learn if there are any stampings on the spine.

You can be proud that you were able to recognize this saw as "a diamond in the
rough!" Many would have passed it up; just bringing that handle back to
usefulness will be a challenge by itself.

My surmise is that you immediately recognized it as excellent, despite having
been left out in the rain, due to the shape of the handle.   It would be nice if
you could get a square-on photo of the profile of the handle with a background
of graph paper; galoots with more talent than I might want to try to duplicate
the gorgeous shape.

This thread is yet another example of the Power of the Porch, the incredible
ocean of research, curatorial, restoration, design, and craftsmanship knowledge
that all of you, taken as a whole, represent.

John Ruth
Grateful to be a part of this on-line community.
274266 Bridger Berdel <bridgerberdel@g...> 2021‑08‑01 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
I have a Richardson bros saw of similar size and configuration with the
barely recognizable remnants of a handle. I'd love to have a handle pattern
for it. It's on my short list of restoration projects so any year now.
274269 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2021‑08‑02 Re: Did Richardson Make a WS Saw?
>
>
> Maybe it's just me, but something looks out of proportion or something
with that over-long nose on the spine of Richardson saw handles.  Anyone
else get that feeling?   I've got at least one of them in a "to fix"
project bin somewhere.

Even though I'm not a super big fan of that shape, I wouldn't throw it out
of bed for making sawdust.

 I'm a fan of Blackburn's stuff.  Good quality saw plates, split nuts, and
reasonable pricing too (no affiliation, just a happy customer).

Claudio in Waterloo

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