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274655 Kirk Eppler 2021‑10‑08 Do you trammel?
oops, reply, reply all, one is more helpful to others in this situation.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Kirk Eppler 
Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [oldtools] Do you trammel?
To: Bill Ghio 


I did not check the big book pix first, but the text says the early ones
were quite ornate, so I hauled out my 1855 to 1898 catalog collection book
(Astragal Press), and yours look pretty close to the illustrations in 1879
to 1898, per below.  Later catalogs, like 1914 on, are quite plain, but the
same body shape


The smugmug link is pretty typical of the image for 1879 to 1898 catalogs


My copy of the big book (1996 2nd edition) shows three sets on page 632,
the top being plain and probably later, then the lower two (types 1 & 2)
more ornate, as per my link just above

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 12:10 PM Bill Ghio via groups.io  wrote:

> Photos are here:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../albums/72157719983263196/with/5156
> The last pic in the album is an early trammel set. I always thot they were
> Stanley, but looking at the drawing in Walter’s big book they appear to be
> different. I find no manuf. marks. Anybody recognize these? FYI, the short
> center shaft screwed into the beam is a pencil holder that can replace one
> of the points.

Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA, hating county bureaucracy right now.
274656 Erik Levin 2021‑10‑08 Re: Do you trammel?
Do I? DO I? You bet I do.

A nice piece you have, but I can not help to confirm the maker of the maybe
Stanley. I am glad that you give it life, though, as trammels have paid many of
my bills over the years doing layout work at job two, both striking arcs and in

I don't know if you have had the need, but I find that ball-end 'points' are
also very useful. The last tool chest I reclaimed (side of the road snap-on
find. It was, to be blunt, a mess, the bottom twisted 30mm out of flat) I made a
base to fit the condition (solid second-hand oak and some commercial
glued/laminated/pressed sheet material), planing the support locations for good
bearing to match the base twist with a #4C and transferring the bolt holes with
the trammel. Set on the existing holes using the ball points, swap in the
sharps, and mark for bore. 60seconds with an 8" sweep yankee and #6 bit, and
good to go. Gotta have concentric points, though; not the off-center, rotate for
fine adjust type.

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274657 Bill Ghio 2021‑10‑08 Re: Do you trammel?

Your second link is the same pic as in the Walter book. The shape and size are
the same but the patterning of the casting on mine is different, and look at the
screw tops. On mine is a double row of knurling while the Stanley’s as
illustrated have a single row of knurling. I have had the piece for several
years but had never notice the difference till today.

274658 Bill Ghio 2021‑10‑08 Re: Do you trammel?
Ahh, I wasn’t aware of trammels w/ ball ends. Very interesting. My home-made
points came out as non-concentric but I figured that was an adjustment advantage
so it did not concern me. Darn.

274659 Kirk Eppler 2021‑10‑08 Re: Do you trammel?
I wasn't sure if the pics were the same in all versions of the big book.

Remember that the Stanley catalog cuts were done with engraved block
prints, not photos. It could be that the block never looked like the real
thing, or that they gave the engraver an early trammel to look at, then
changed it before it became real production.  Or yours are real early.

Googling images for
trammel points ornate brass -stanley

Brings up one or two nearly similar to yours, but all unmarked

And our friend Jim Bode has a set that looks identical to your knobs, and
he claims they are Stanley

Great Planes (lot #33) has a similar set, also claiming Stanley

& #36 here

I guess we'll never know for certain without the name cast or stamped into
the trammels.  Or a better catalog image coming out.


Dang, check out these PNTC give aways

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 1:21 PM Bill Ghio via groups.io  wrote:
274660 Kirk Eppler 2021‑10‑08 Re: Do you trammel?
And Erik Starts us all on a frantic search for the be all end all trammel
set, the Starrett #59


Kirk, who saw a single accessory piece of this selling for $20 a while back

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 1:27 PM Bill Ghio via groups.io  wrote:
274661 Bill Ghio 2021‑10‑08 Re: Do you trammel?
Oh my, I want one… and only $5.75.
274662 Erik Levin 2021‑10‑08 Re: Do you trammel?
I will admit that one set I have is the Starrett purchased at fire sale pricing,
with the selection of ball radii. But the set I most use, I made, as having
matching size ball ends is very handy using soft(ish) 1" steel balls from
McMaster (the weldable grade). Carefully bore a hole into it- a lathe is nice,
but the first set I did on a job 20 some-odd years ago was with a drill press
and careful setup- and set a rod in. Braze is good, epoxy works too.

If not perfectly enough centered (1/64 is good enough for a lot of work, most of
mine are 0.005" or better), mark the fat side, hold the shaft in a vise a little
back from the ball, and tap with a hammer to bend the shaft. It is surprisingly
easy to got good enough. The first set wasn't well enough lined, and I didn't
think to adjust them at the time, so I marked for orientation to make it easy to
set to the middle rotation that matches the sharp points. This gives fine adjust
for the ball if I need it, like when striking concentric around a hole.

Non-concentric points can be similarly marked to make it easy to find close
enough to the neutral position while allowing you to twist for fine adjust.

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On Friday, October 8, 2021, 05:31:10 PM EDT, Bill Ghio  wrote: 

Oh my, I want one… and only $5.75.
274664 Phil E. <pedgerton66@g...> 2021‑10‑09 Re: Do you trammel?
Ball end points> Whazzat den?

Phil E.
274669 Mike Rock <mikerock@m...> 2021‑10‑09 Re: Do you trammel?
We used the ball ends in pattern making for the foundry.  They get 
plopped in an existing hole and you tram from there.
The balls replace a point on the center.

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