Here's a little tidbit from a paper conservation text I was reading today...

In order of potency, least to most, these are the solvents recommended for
removing adhesives from paper:

heptane
benzine
toluene
acetone
ethyl alchohol

Surprised me, but than I haven't had Chem for many many years.  Comments
anyone?

(reminds me of a trick someone showed me years ago for loosening old hide
glue in joints... inject benzine into the joint, let it evaporate.  Inject
a little more and work the joint lightly.  The hide glue will soften and
the joint comes apart.  Of course your lungs probably come apart also...)

Gary Roberts groberts@s...
Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there?

Gary Roberts wrote the following and asked for comments.

>Here's a little tidbit from a paper conservation text I was reading today...
>
>In order of potency, least to most, these are the solvents recommended for
>removing adhesives from paper:
>
>heptane
>benzine
>toluene
>acetone
>ethyl alchohol
>
>Surprised me, but than I haven't had Chem for many many years.  Comments
>anyone?

(snip)

Was that an _old_ text Gary?.  I think some of the info may be out of date.

People can be careless with their spelling and you may mean benz _i_ne in 
the old and european sense of petrol / gasoline / white gas.  If on the 
other hand you meant benz_e_ne, there is the critical difference that this 
stuff has been clearly shown to be a carcinogen in trace amounts  It was 
used for a wide range of uses but it is no longer stuff to use without very 
effective vapour and contact barriers.  People often confuse the two with 
unfortunate results.

Toluene is not a lot better from a Health and Safety point of view.

Acetone must still be considered safe enough, given its ubiquitous presence 
in nail varnish remover,  to say nothing of the way fibre glassers spill the 
stuff around.  (just say I was boatbuilding last night and my cats fled from 
the acetone smell when I walked in home)

Ethyl alcohol (ethanol) is the basic ingredient of beer, whisky and some 
rocket fuels.  Great stuff, with only the obvious dangers.

Heptane I know nothing about.

Regards,

Tony

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:44:41 -0500, Gary Roberts wrote:

>Here's a little tidbit from a paper conservation text I was reading 
today...
>
>In order of potency, least to most, these are the solvents recommended for
>removing adhesives from paper:
>
>heptane
>benzine
>toluene
>acetone
>ethyl alchohol
>
>Surprised me, but than I haven't had Chem for many many years.  Comments
>anyone?

I'm also surprised, for several reasons.

  First, "benzine" isn't a proper chemical name for a solvent.  It's a 
generic name for various sorts of petroleum distillates, except perhaps in 
some countries where it may be the name for a particular sort of solvent.  
Benzene is a chemical name for a solvent, but it's a serious carcinogen and 
isn't used in a non-industrial context any more.  Any chance the paper 
conservation text was non-US, where "benzine" might have an accepted 
meaning?

  Second, I'm not familiar with heptane being used as a solvent in 
woodworking or finishing, at least.  It is a well-defined, specific 
petroleum distillate, but I'm not sure how it ranks vs. our more familiar 
"mineral spirits" and "naptha".  My guess is that heptane is comparable to 
"naptha" and "benzine" is comparable to "mineral spirits" or Stoddard 
solvent.

  The progression to toluene and then acetone seems appropriate.  Methyl 
ethyl ketone might fit in somewhere there, as does lacquer thinner, which is 
a mix of the above.

  Third, and most peculiar, is the listing of ethyl alcohol as being the 
most potent of these solvents.  There are many things that are soluble in 
the other solvents that ethyl alcohol will completely ignore.  Moreover, I 
would expect that virtually anything that ethyl alcohol would dissolve would 
also be dissolved by acetone and/or toluene.  Perhaps ethanol was listed 
last because there are a small number of adhesives that are insoluble in the 
earlier solvents that are uniquely soluble in ethanol (or methanol), even 
though methanol is not a more "potent" solvent?  In wood refinishing, 
ethanol would be the first, not last, solvent to try, because shellac will 
dissolve in it while other more resistant finishes won't.

  Finally, I'm surprised because there is no listing for solvents such as 
water (necessary to dissolve dextrose glue [e.g., stamps] and hide glue), 
ethyl ether, trichloroethane, carbon tetrachloride, or high-tech 
possibilities such as liquefied CO2 under pressure.

-- Michael D. Sullivan, Bethesda, Md., USA
-- Email: mds@a..., avogadro@w...

Gary Roberts groberts@s... wrote:

In order of potency, least to most, these are the solvents
recommended for removing adhesives from paper:

heptane
benzine
toluene
acetone
ethyl alchohol 

which prompted me to outlurk and  toss in $A 0.02 (0.014 US :-) ) and a 
brief bio. 
comment: no real surprises there, you could probably put chloroform up there 
too - all  good organic solvents. personally ethyl alcohol would be 
my choice of poison.
brief bio: i have become interested, primarily as a user, in old 
tools; partially as a delayed rebellion against paternal regard for 
fine sawdust and noise rather than shavings :^) . no specific reason to 
actually get interested in woodwork, just happened on it somehow and 
found the production of shavings a most restful alternative to making 
cells jump through hoops at the PhD grindstone and easier to arrange than 
getting away into the mountains for a good bushwalk.
unfortunately tool acquisition appears rather more difficult in this 
part of  the antipodes than i gather in parts northerly, but living 
in the heart of some perrrfect wine country does help.

Brian Stein
~.sig

Dear Gary:

Did the text go into the relative health risks of the various
liquids?

In freshman chem, 18 years ago (my god . ..), a nice man who
is now dead (jeeze . . .) explained that Benzene was a bad
thing and was a strong carcinogen. He never mentioned the
others. But seeing your list, I wonder . . . Particularly
because I use a lot of alcohol in the basement (yes, that is
a straight line -- if any of you are up to the challenge).

Best regards,

John

>heptane
>benzine
>toluene
>acetone
>ethyl alchohol
>
>Surprised me, but than I haven't had Chem for many many years.  Comments
>anyone?


        Yeah, these things are killers, and I mean that in the context of
toxicity.  Toluene and benzene (IUPAC spelling, as opposed to Brit version
of what we burn in the old jalopy) are both known liver carcinogens, and
heptane is not nearly so benign.  Acetone is, of course, an explosion and
fire hazard.  DON'T use these unless you have positive ventilation, pushing
the fumes away from you, and into a safe location.  (I'm reminded of a
pharmaceutical firm, headquartered here in Indianapolis, but which shall
otherwise remain nameless.  They had a bunch of fume hoods carefully vented.
Unfortunately, the sheet-metal guy's didn't pay attention to the blueprints,
and placed the outlets right next to the intake vents for the new cafeteria.)
        As far as ethanol is concerned, Just Say (tm) I've got a 3rd cousin
with his own brand of premium burbon whiskey on the market.

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Gary Roberts wrote:

> Here's a little tidbit from a paper conservation text I was reading today...
> 
> In order of potency, least to most, these are the solvents recommended for
> removing adhesives from paper:
> 
> heptane
> benzine
> toluene
> acetone
> ethyl alchohol

The term "potency" is misaplied in reference to solvents. The solvent
properties in this list is directly related to the "polarity" of the
material to be dissolved. The list starts with the least polar, heptane to
most polar, ethyl alcohol. 

A good rule of thumb to describe "polarity" is how closely a given material
resembles water. For the most polar materials, say water based pigments,
the most polar solvents in the list, acetone and ethyl alcohol will be
most effective and the others non-effective. An oil based paint,
relatively less polar, will dissolve in heptane (cruder paint thinner is a
mixture of similar products) and hardly at all in ethanol.

Acetone is probably the best "universal" solvent for glues and other 
similar materials but it must be used very carefully to avoid damage to 
other surfaces.

Other folks have commented on spelling and health issues but from my point
of view using small amounts of solvents in a well ventilated area presents
minimal risk. The carcinogenic properties of benzene are well documented
but the exposure one gets from occasional use in small amounts is
negligable. 

Don Stern

In reply to all and some...

The word was benzIne, not benzene.  It is a US published text about ten
years old.  So I assume that benzine is one of the petroleum distallate
mixes.  I am waiting for some more recent texts to make it my way via the
inter-library loan system.

And remember, this was a paper conservation text.  The topic was what
solvents work best for PAPER.  Meaning which solvents would do the least
harm to the organic content, finish and ink of printed materials.  I can't
say that this would translate to wood.

But see'n as I do buy trade and tool related paper stuff, and much of it is
in need of conservation, there is a tangential relationship to wood,
wouldn't you say (almost a pun there!)

The text made me think about ways to remove glue stains from wood... the
ubiquitous marks left by stick on price labels... while doing the least
damage or alteration to the wood and or finish.

Gary Roberts groberts@s...
Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there?

Gary Roberts wrote:

~  The text made me think about ways to remove glue stains from wood... the
~  ubiquitous marks left by stick on price labels... while doing the least
~  damage or alteration to the wood and or finish.

For generally removing sticky labels, I use a hair dryer. It seems
unlikely to do much harm to a wooden surface. With luck, most of the
adhesive comes away with the paper.

Jeff

-- 
Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire
jeff@m...

At 09:17 AM 12/14/96 -0500, Jeff Gorman wrote:

>For generally removing sticky labels, I use a hair dryer. It seems
>unlikely to do much harm to a wooden surface. With luck, most of the
>adhesive comes away with the paper.

Jeff,

Are you saying you apply heat _before_ attempting to remove a label, or are
you using the hair dryer on the adhesive left after the label has been removed?

David

Hi there, Porch Perchers

On the subject of removing tape adhesive, my SWMBO recently purchased some
gunk called (strangely enough), "Tape Away" tape adhesive remover.  It's 
made by "Deflect-o" and it works.  I have been repainting a wall where lots
of stuff had been hung with scotch tape (teenage girl lived there).  Tape
Away did an excellent job of removing the adhesive spots from the wall.

I have no commercial interest in this product - just thought I'd shill it
because good products deserve good reviews.

BTW, I think she bought it in an office supply store.

Bob

David Hunkins wrote:
  
~  >For generally removing sticky labels, I use a hair dryer. It seems
~  >unlikely to do much harm to a wooden surface. With luck, most of the
~  >adhesive comes away with the paper.
~  
~  Jeff,
~  
~  Are you saying you apply heat _before_ attempting to remove a label, or are
~  you using the hair dryer on the adhesive left after the label has been remove
d?

I just warm the surface+label with the jet on its highest setting and the nozzle
 an inch or so away. This loosens the adhesive so that it can be peeled away wit
hout the paper splitting. If one lifts a corner and pulls while heating, it is e
asy to determine when to switch off the dryer.

When removing compact disc labels it only temporarily bends the plastic slightly
 without permanent harm to the case or disc, so I can't see the heat harming the
 wood.

Jeff

--   
Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire jeff@m...

  On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Gary Roberts wrote: 

 Here's a little tidbit from a paper conservation text I was reading today... 

In order of potency, least to most, these are the solvents recommended for remov
ing adhesives from paper: 

heptane 
benzine toluene acetone ethyl alchohol 

I in the middle of reading Flexner's book on woodfinishing and he clears up the 
benzene/benzine thing. The petroleum distillate that comes off after the gasolin
e, is naptha or also called benzine. After this (higher temperature) comes the m
ineral spirits. THe pure chemicals benzene and toluene are extracted from this. 
Benzene is a carcinogen, benzine is ok. He says to remember the "e" in benzene i
s like the e in dead, the "i" in benzine is like the i in alive - cute, eh.

Carl - (who used to wash his hands is benzene back in organic chem lab)

At 11:57 PM -0400 12/15/96, Jeff Gorman wrote:
>David Hunkins wrote:
>
>~  >For generally removing sticky labels, I use a hair dryer. It seems
>~  >unlikely to do much harm to a wooden surface. With luck, most of the
>~  >adhesive comes away with the paper.

This long winded diatribe was in response to a side bar about the evils of
scotch tape:

>>I recently bought a Stanley 271 in the box.  The box has scotch tape all
>>around the top.  I think it is to hold the top together.  Do you have any
>>thing in your archives o conservation on how to remove scotch tape from
>>paper.
>
>Jim...
>
>This all depends on the age of the tape. If it is new enough for the
>adhesive to be sticky, than you can use one approach, but if the tape is
>old and the adhesive is dried, you have to attack it in a different manner.
>
>New (sticky) tape: One method is to apply a moderate heat source to the
>tape to soften the plastic and adhesive just enough to peel the tape off.
>You can buy fancy tools for this, but I use two art spatulas... the thin
>flexible type.  Warm one in hot water, wipe it off and quickly press it to
>the tape.  As the adhesive softens, gently slip the other one under the
>edge of the tape and lift.  Keep on doing this a little bit at a time.  It
>is slow, but using a higher heat source risks damaging the paper.
>
>Once the tape has been removed, you can work on the remaining adhesive.
>The problem is that the solvent to remove the adhesive may disolve or
>discolor the paper.  You have to test a small area first. I use a q-tip
>slightly moistened with the solvent (naptha is good due to it's fast
>evaporation, but I have also used ethyl alcholol) and roll it across the
>surface (don't rub, roll).  If the adhesive lifts, let the surface dry and
>check for changes in color.  If acceptable, you can now do the same with
>the remaining adhesive.  Just remember to roll the applicator instead of
>rubbing.  And change to fresh applicators fequently.
>
>Old tape:  you may be able to peel the old tape off without heating.  Take
>two spatulas with thin but not sharp blades.  Place the edge of one against
>the leading edge of the tape. Place the other spatula on top of the first
>one.  Pressing the bottom spatula against the paper, slide the top spatula
>a little bit under the tape and lift with a rolling motion.  The idea is
>that the bottom one prevents the paper fibers from lifting and tearing
>while the top one separates the tape from the paper.
>
>If this is not possible, you can try the heat method to see if the adhesive
>will soften.  With either method, you will likely have some dark staining
>remaining from the adhesive.  But I prefer that to the tape.
>
>If the tape is really stubborn, you may have to use a solvent directly on
>the tape.  This is time consuming as you can only work on a small area at a
>time.  You have to be careful not to saturate the paper as much as
>possible.  Some saturation is inevitable, but with care you can minimize
>the affects.
>
>If it helps, I have a 45 in a cardboard box held together with duct tape.
>I waited about 1 year for the tape to become sufficiently dry for me to
>peel it off.
>
>Hope this helps

Gary Roberts groberts@s...
Boston, MA...Antique tools, Art Pottery, Hong Kong cinema, what else is there?